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Mental Gymnastics by jackcomstock Mental Gymnastics by jackcomstock
What do you value more, truth or faith?

I spent 17 years of my life do using mental gymnastics to justify what I believed. I was living a mental simulation where god was real. this greatly skewed my perspective on reality.

to any one that believes these verses are taken out of context or misinterpreted please read the following verse

2 Peter 1:20" "no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation."


[link]

[link]
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:iconlinkzilla:
Linkzilla Featured By Owner Nov 12, 2014
..."All Power is given to me in Heaven and in Earth."
..."The Whole World is in the Control of the Evil One."

CONFESSION!!! Right there; Christ himself admits it! The BOOK right there states it there. It either means that this is a contradiction of what Jesus - God himself - once said...OR...it's a thinly veiled message stating that God is in fact, EVIL!
Let's look at it from a Christian Perspective; God is Infallible, is never wrong and never contradicts himself (despite what evidence above suggest). Any and all contradictions are merely misinterpreted...Well then;

God himself says that the Earth is in the Power of the Evil One...
And God says that HE controls all of the Power in Heaven and Earth...
So Earth is within GOD'S power since God can never be wrong. And since God cannot contradict himself, this cannot be referring to Satan; both statements refer to one single being who is control of everything.

Q.E.D. God is Evil.

I wonder which one is worse; the fact that the Holy Book contradicts itself, or that it CONFIRMS Atheist beliefs.
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:icondaneofscandinavy:
DaneOfScandinavy Featured By Owner 4 days ago
Or God and Satan are the same being?
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:iconlinkzilla:
Linkzilla Featured By Owner 4 days ago
Naw; they're not the same being. Much like Christ, Satan is just a puppet, and God is pulling his strings.
Satan and Christ are both two sides of the same coin. One side is meant to scare the sheep AWAY from the other, and the other is meant to scare the sheep TOWARD the first side.
The Game is Rigged and God is the only winner. He's manipulating the system to get people to Willingly Worship him.
But...that's not was Free Will is...That is Fear Mongering. Fear is the Antithesis of Will. All God is doing is (with Satan) presenting a side that is a Worse Alternative than him, and (with Christ) giving the masses the prospect of hope and reward to turn to...But people are only doing it because they're afraid...And in their fear they have yet to truly think about the evidence before them, and are still completely unaware that their God...is a Monster.
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:icondaneofscandinavy:
DaneOfScandinavy Featured By Owner 3 days ago
But God wouldn't need to do that, as he's all-powerful and could just enslave our minds to make us follow him. If someone's using this "trick", it's the corrupt religious leaders.
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:iconsoulessone12:
soulessone12 Featured By Owner Oct 17, 2014
And this is why I read the context around the quotes.....
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:iconkaspirjones:
KaspirJones Featured By Owner Jun 27, 2014  Hobbyist Artisan Crafter
GREAT PIECE! Let the religious argue all day about "THE HOLY BOOK" that any other time would be their answer and argument to everything. They are masters of semantics when it comes to their circular logic. It's so convenient. If good happens it's because of GOD, if bad happens you did something wrong. Blah Blah Blah.
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:iconthe-dork-king:
The-Dork-King Featured By Owner Edited Dec 23, 2014  Hobbyist General Artist
Yes, let them argue over the bible and refine it to their own means as well as try to decipher the meaning behind all these vague verses. :D If people think that this user is taking scripture out of context, then why don't they tell us what's it really suppose to mean. Oh wait they can't, because Christian theologians are still not a hundred percent sure neither. 

I wonder why Christians don't practice the lifestyles of the old testament and use it as a mere story book but instead use Christ to put others down and tell them that their going to suffer for all eternity for not accepting him. Weren't people punished for this in the old testament ? Suddenly Jesus shows up and no more slaves nor killing nor beating your children or selling them :|

 
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:iconkaspirjones:
KaspirJones Featured By Owner Jun 27, 2014  Hobbyist Artisan Crafter
LMFAO!
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:iconmenapia:
menapia Featured By Owner Jun 20, 2014
been there done that, I got sent to a school which had it's own private church and seminary & theological library I still remember the purple colour the religion lecturer went when someone mention DarwinOops! 
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:icondemon242:
Demon242 Featured By Owner Jan 13, 2014
If you felt mind-f#cked by the hypocrisy here, try reading the real Bible. Go ahead. Pick any of the 100,000+ different versions out there. You'll find basically the same heaping piles of BS there too. 
You know, give or take a shovel. 
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:iconspiffythecreative:
SpiffytheCreative Featured By Owner Nov 23, 2013  Student Digital Artist
---
-Jeremiah 3:12 and Jeremiah 17:4-

You forgot to mention that Jeremiah 3:12 has a condition.

"‘Return, faithless Israel,’ declares the Lord,‘I will frown on you no longer, for I am faithful,’ declares the Lord,‘I will not be angry forever.’"

15 chapters later, it's clear that Israel didn't listen.

"Through your own fault you will lose the inheritance I gave you. I will enslave you to your enemies in a land you do not know, for you have kindled my anger, and it will burn forever.”

---
-John 5:31 and John 8:14-

When Jesus says his testimony would be invalid, that's because he would need another person to advocate. He immediately clarifies that the Father would advocate for him. Later, in John 8, he says...huh, that the Father would advocate for him, making his otherwise invalid testimony valid. When talking to his friends, he could start out by saying the negative, because he knew they would let him finish. Now, if you're standing in front of a bunch of people who are all searching for a reason to have you killed, you don't want to start off with "My testimony isn't valid, but..."

---
-Matthew 28:18 and John 9:39-

lol ok, so if the devil is manipulating everything on earth, then God isn't allowed to be all-powerful?

---
-John 9:39 and John 12:47-

You know what, that seems less stupid and more cool. I'm glad you pointed this one out. Imagine these being said in the same sentence:

I came here for the sake of Judgement, but I didn't come to judge the world.

The whole sacrificial death was an enactment of judgement, but rather than condemning the world, he condemned himself in its place.

Although, honestly, it looks more like he's talking about discernment in chapter 9, whereas he's talking about our modern conception of judgement, being judgemental. He sure wasn't judgemental, or he wouldn't have spent all of his time with people whose lives were royally screwed up.
---
-Genesis 32:30 and John 1:18-

Okay, so Jacob has just come from wrestling a mysterious man, demanding God's blessing. Some believe it was an angel, others believe it was God. I personally believe it was actually God, since the text really seems to lean in that direction. However, that interaction was with God in human form. If seeing God in a human body contradicts "No man has seen God," then I can think of four new-testament books that might have a problem, including the one this very passage is from.

The Bible makes it abundantly clear that seeing God unfiltered is not possible. At least, staying alive while doing so isn't. That's why he tends to send messangers or appear to people in the Bible as a voice. No man has actually seen God face to face, but it's ok, Jacob. You're still special.

"You cannot grasp the true form of God" lol
---

I'd recomment training your heart, mental strength, and mental flexibility. They tend to make mental gymnastics a lot easier.

To answer your rhetorical question, jackcomstock, I value truth over faith. You can have faith in anything, but truth is absolute, a reference point from which everything must be measured. I want to put faith in truth. The problem is that many things look like truth, and the truth can be made to look like a lie, especially when you apply your own private interpretation.
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:iconcorvus-the-snark:
Corvus-the-Snark Featured By Owner Nov 12, 2013  Hobbyist General Artist
Reply
:iconderroflcopter:
Derroflcopter Featured By Owner Jan 9, 2014
O hai.
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:iconcorvus-the-snark:
Corvus-the-Snark Featured By Owner Jan 9, 2014  Hobbyist General Artist
Heya, I remember you :)
Reply
:iconderroflcopter:
Derroflcopter Featured By Owner Jan 9, 2014
Wanna debate some more?
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:iconcorvus-the-snark:
Corvus-the-Snark Featured By Owner Jan 9, 2014  Hobbyist General Artist
No thanks, whilst I enjoyed it last time, I'm currently recovering after debating with a pair of very intolerant and ignorant atheists on Youtube, the kind that just go "Religion is evil!" and "Religious people hold back society!" without saying much else. Their arguments were full of holes and they very quickly shut up after (I can say without bragging that I owned them), however talking with people so incredibly intolerant and arrogant is very draining, I pray that those two change their lifestyle, maybe not to Christianity or away form Atheism, but at least to a mindset that isn't so bitter and hateful.

Thank you for offering though, may God bless :)
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:iconphaedeaux:
Phaedeaux Featured By Owner Oct 8, 2013
That's why the Holy Babble can be used to "prove" any damn thing. From a contradiction, anything follows.
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:iconmizumegamisama:
MizuMegamiSama Featured By Owner Dec 9, 2013
"The Holy Babble" :XD:  I love it.
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:iconjec00k:
JEC00k Featured By Owner Apr 12, 2013  Hobbyist Traditional Artist
The full verses:

Jeremiah 3:12 "Go, proclaim this message toward the North: 'Return faithless Israel,' declares the Lord, 'I will frown on you no longer, for I am merciful,' declares the Lord, 'I will not be angry forever."

Jeremiah 17:4 "Through your own fault you will lose the inheritance I gave you. I will enslave you to your enemies in a land you do not know, for you have kindled my anger, and it will burn forever."

John 5:31 *has full verse*

John 8:14 "Jesus answered, 'Even if I testify on my own behalf, my testimony is valid, for I know where I came from and where I am going. But you have no idea where I come from or where I am going."

Mathew 28:18 *has full verse*

1 John 5:19 "We know that we are children of God, and that the whole world is under the control of the evil one."

John 9:39 " Jesus said, 'For judgment I have come into this world, so that the blind will see and those who see will become blind.' (This thing doesn't even have the right verse!)

John 12:47 " 'If anyone hears my words but does not keep them, I do not judge that person. For I did not come to judge the world, but to save the world."

Genesis 32:30 "So Jacob called the place Peniel, saying, 'It is because I saw God face to face, and yet my life was spared.' "

John 1:18 "No one has ever seen God, but the one and only Son, who is himself God and is in closest relationship with the Father, has made him known."

If you're going to try to insult Christianity, put the full verse. And you know what? Try actually reading the Bible so you know the context of these verses. Many of thses are different people talking or writing.

The whole of 2 Peter 1:20 "Above all, you must understand that no prophecy of Scripture came about by the prophet’s own interpretation of things."

I used a NIV Bible, so the wording might be a bit different. Anyone reading these partial quotes should know that they are only segments of a whole understanding.
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:iconswordrush13:
Swordrush13 Featured By Owner Nov 16, 2012
So...I'm legitimately impressed by this. I mean...typically, people tend to always take things out of context, whether they want to prove or disprove the Bible. However, in this case, you used the verses in the proper context and they still contradicted each other for the most part. I do, however, have a few questions/points to make (and I hope you don't see this as an attack, because this is anything but...I'm truly interested in conversation).

Contradiction 1: Reading this, I think that God was talking to the people of Israel in the first reference while he is talking to the people of Judah in the second. Now, I know that Judah is a tribe of Israel, but do you think that the different audiences could have anything to do with the contradiction in the passage?

Contradiction 2: Yeah...there really is no arguing that. That's nothing but a contradiction that I'm surprised no one else has caught.

Contradiction 3: ...again, very difficult to counter. Yet I wonder if we're supposed to read more into it than what's at face value. Like...I could see someone trying to argue that Jesus is saying that the world was rightfully given to him, but it has been wrenched from his grip by Satan, as is said in the second passage. It could also be argued that Jesus, in his power, allows Satan do exercise his power, which causes another whole debate entirely.

Contradiction 4: This one is actually more contradictory than you made it seem, since he actually seems to contradict himself in Chapter 12 alone, when he says that he didn't come to judge, but basically added that judging was in his job description. It makes me wonder if it's similar to a parent's "I don't want to punish you, but I have to."

Contradiction 5: I find this contradiction to be flawed, but the flaw brings up another contradiction. In the first reference, Jacob/Israel claims to have seen God. Yet, if one reads the passage, you can see that Jacob seems to be wrestling an angel. Strangely enough, this isn't the only time when an angel is referred to as God. Of course, it is known that angels are the messengers of God, but it seems that the Bible occasionally refers to God and angels in the same light, while making the distinction in other places.

What I mean to say in all of this is that I don't think the Genesis reference is actually referring to God, despite the fact that it refers to God (which I know just makes perfect sense :P).

I'd love to hear some of your responses to my responses, but all in all, I think you did a really good job in proposing an intelligent argument and several valid (or invalid, depending on how you look at it) points.
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:iconmamalucia:
MamaLucia Featured By Owner Nov 6, 2012  Hobbyist Artisan Crafter
:clap: :wave: :love:

Have you ever heard of a blivet? [link] (Also sometimes called the devil's tuning fork or poiuyt.) That's what religion has always seemed like to me. If you narrow your focus to just one piece at a time, it all seems to make sense. But when you try to put it all together, it's impossible, just like the impossible figure of the blivet.

Yes, indeed, the bible has answers for everything. Of course, they aren't CONSISTENT answers! :D
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:icontrickycreature:
TrickyCreature Featured By Owner Nov 6, 2012  Hobbyist General Artist
Reading this and remembering what I experienced with those nuts, it's no wonder so many Xtians end up in an institution for mental health issues. It's so easy to get the wires crossed reading the bible.
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:iconjpngrl4ever:
JpnGrl4ever Featured By Owner Sep 30, 2012  Student Traditional Artist
context, context, context.... Silly you! You forgot to look at the surrounding verses to see what they were about! I'm sure that it just slipped your mind. As for me, I value truth AND faith.

fyi-- 2 Peter 1:20: Above all, you must understand that no prophecy of Scripture came about by the prophet’s own interpretation of things. For prophecy never had its origin in the human will, but prophets, though human, spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit.

how does that scripture prove your point at all?
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:iconebolabearvomit:
EbolaBearVomit Featured By Owner Nov 11, 2012
Nonsense.
Numerous verses oppose each other. Context excuses only seek to avoid that.

If the so called prophets were being mind controlled to write the specific words of their deity, why are there so many inconsistent issues with the book?
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:iconorcbruto:
orcbruto Featured By Owner May 10, 2012  Hobbyist Artisan Crafter
...Sooooo Jesus is the Evil One! Damned Cthulhu!!! =D
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:iconaatheist:
AAtheist Featured By Owner May 10, 2012
Nice do you mind if I add this to my facebook page? I'll stick a link up so people know where ti came from.
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:iconjackcomstock:
jackcomstock Featured By Owner May 10, 2012
That would be awesome friend. Thank you :)
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:iconaatheist:
AAtheist Featured By Owner May 10, 2012
Thank You :) [link]
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:iconvampire9545:
vampire9545 Featured By Owner May 9, 2012  Student General Artist
bloody awesome...MORE MORE! encore,encore
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:icondiligit-miseria:
Diligit-Miseria Featured By Owner Dec 10, 2011  Hobbyist Traditional Artist
This is interesting personnally I attended catholic school for seven years the teachers there were self-righteous and menopausal my peers believed they had self entitlement and I was excluded in the small peer group and every day they told me that god wanted me to feel like this as if it were my fault and that everything happens for a reason. This has caused me to become an atheist with a respect for religon despite the fact that I believe it is an excuse to blame an outside power for your problems and get through disappointing things by assuring yourself that a magic hand in the sky has a plan for you. I believe people's actions cause things, that science can explain things, that your outlook on life governs how people and situations react to you, and that everyone has basic rights. I value truth but I value peoples emotions and beliefs too.
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:icondiseasedxdisciple:
DiseasedxDisciple Featured By Owner Oct 12, 2012  Hobbyist Traditional Artist
There are many people who say one thing but do another. It is all too common for people who say their Christian to act completely different.

But fortunately we were given a good way to prove that. "You will know them by their works. For a good tree does not produce bad fruits, and a bad tree does not produce good fruits."

Those who ARE Christian, produce kindness, understanding, love, patience, etc.
Those who PRETEND to be Christian often produce hate, judgement, jump to conclusions, ignorance, etc.

One thing I would reccommend for you to read (because it is pretty short too) is a book called "More Than a Carpenter". Since that might be asking a lot, I'd be willing to read a book of your choice in return.
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:icondiligit-miseria:
Diligit-Miseria Featured By Owner Oct 12, 2012  Hobbyist Traditional Artist
I may check it out actually. Not to revitalize my faith but because I find religion fascinating. If you like I would recommend simply brushing up on the five pillars of Islam which they actually taught in depth in catholic school (it was history class and we were studying development of early societies. They remind me of the ten commandments. Or if you like some of the writings of the enlightenment period.
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:icondiseasedxdisciple:
DiseasedxDisciple Featured By Owner Oct 12, 2012  Hobbyist Traditional Artist
I'll read about the five pillars of Islam. Thank you for giving my request consideration.
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:icondroultrinnin-61:
DroUltrinnin-61 Featured By Owner Nov 4, 2011
So you are only 17 yrs old?
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:iconalmcdermid:
almcdermid Featured By Owner Oct 30, 2011  Hobbyist Writer
'Christianity is flawed, therefore, no God' is a bit of a leap, don't you think?
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:icondiligit-miseria:
Diligit-Miseria Featured By Owner Dec 10, 2011  Hobbyist Traditional Artist
that is a leap every religon has flaws but atheism is the belief that there is no higher power in the world. Some athesists subscribe to scientific theories and those have flaws.
So in general all beliefs have flaws and everyone has a right to their own.
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:iconvanna1994:
Vanna1994 Featured By Owner Sep 12, 2012
I like how you put that, and I agree.
You can always find something that doesn't make sense, or someone considers it to be flawed, ect.
Personally, I am a Christian, and I think part of what some people say about Christian people, have to do with how those people have interpreted the Bible, but maybe that part of it is my personal opinion.
(I;m not up for a religous dispute with anyone, those get messy over the internet .. I just wanted to say that I liked what you said there)
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:iconalmcdermid:
almcdermid Featured By Owner Dec 10, 2011  Hobbyist Writer
It would seem that the issue is one of respecting the opinions and/or beliefs of others rather than having the right to those opinions.
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:icondroultrinnin-61:
DroUltrinnin-61 Featured By Owner Oct 30, 2011
Proper translation/interpretation/exegisis:

Jeremiah.3:7. God is saying that He will forgive Zion, will restore them (from captivity),IF they repent their wrongs. If they do so, He will no longer be angry with them.

Jeremiah.17:4. This refers to the 'wicked' who kindled God's anger & would NOT repent! because of their being 'unrepentant', His anger would not abate and they kindle the fire of Hell that will burn eternally.

These two verses do NOT contradict each other as can be clearly seen if you know what God is saying.

John.5:31. If I am the only one that bears witness of Myself it may be accurate, but to be legally true and acceptable there must be two or three witnesss (Deut.17:6). Though my Own witness is accurate, under the 'law' they (they, being religious hierarchy) require witness.

John.8:14. Clearly agrees with John.5:31. he told them that though He bore witness to himself (without 2 or 3 witnesses), His witness was true. They were challenging him on the 'law' of witness, a He KNEW they would.

No contradiction here either.

Matt.28:18. The Father gave all power to the Son after He achieved redemption. It had been His equality with the Father and Holy Spirit before becoming man, but He had been limited while a man (Luke.2:40,52; Phil.2:7; John.8:28). His glory is restored.

1.John.5:19. Talking about something else here. The whole world is embraced in the arms of the Devil and is more or less asleep in death in tresspass and sins.

These do NOT contradict each other.

John.9:39. Referring to His coming. Rejection of Him will bring judgement. John in John.12:47 refers to the OBJECT of His coming. He came to save, but if men will not accept His Salvation, they will finally be judged (John.3:16-20).

John.12:47. Man must hear in order to believe Christ's words; he must believe in order to keep them; and he must keep them in order to be saved. I judge him not now, but I will judge him in the last day.

NO contradiction here either!

Genesis.32:30 Jacob say's he saw God face to face BUT THAT HIS LIFE WAS PRESERVED! Jacob is talking of the time he 'wrestled' with God. He was a new man, with a new name, a new heart, and a new character. His life was PRESERVED Judges. 6:22-23; 13:22).

John.1;18. Greek. hoaro = english-'seen'. Means to see with the eye's AND mind. Here it means to 'comprehend fully or understand' . Basically, 'no man has ever comprehended or experienced God at any time in ALL His FULLNESS (save only the begotten Son).

NO contradiction here either!

I note you do not even quote the full verse, take them out of context and hae no idea of proper interpretation/translation'exegisis. These verses were 'plucked' to suit an agenda, YOURS, for the purpose of attempting to support your unbelief.

2. Peter.1:20: Prophecy does NOT come from man's mind (fabrication of mans own mind), it comes from God!

You are wrong here on ALL counts.
So, to your statement "What do you value more, truth or faith?" I say BOTH! If you value TRUTH, you should learn how to RECOGNIZE it, learn to understand what God is REALLY saying to you!

Hope this helps!
Buy yourself a 'Dake's Annotated Reference Bible' it is a KJV Bible, Commentary & Concordance in one & while you are at it, try his book, "God's Plan For Man". Better to understand truth, than WANT to believe the lie.

All peace and love!
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:iconmgmags:
MGMags Featured By Owner Sep 15, 2011
LOL!! This is AWESOME!

I call myself a reformed Catholic and this crap is just one of the reasons I say that. I still believe in a higher power (don't care what you want to call it) but I look at it more from a personal spiritual sense and not through any one organized religion's brainwashing. The whole "love your brother as yourself" bit but then we'll turn around and CONDEMN every minority group and lifestyle we don't care for is what finally sent me out the door of my church. If you take that book literally, then rape is ok, incest is ok, suppression of women is ok... if God is really like that, then He doesn't DESERVE my worshiping him.

Thank you for the great laugh. It brightened my day.
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:iconzarhx:
zarhx Featured By Owner Aug 15, 2011
They include everything so that it may be cited at any time out of context to support Christianity :thumbsup:
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:iconpsyconinja7:
psyconinja7 Featured By Owner Aug 3, 2011  Hobbyist General Artist
Wow, contradiction much?
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:iconnihilist-nny:
Nihilist-Nny Featured By Owner Aug 3, 2011
I used to be a Christian until I learned how much the bible contradicts itself and the cruelties inside of that book
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:iconvanna1994:
Vanna1994 Featured By Owner Sep 12, 2012
Out of curiousity.. after reading that last part, would you consider the Bible, or today's world to be more cruel?
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:iconnihilist-nny:
Nihilist-Nny Featured By Owner Nov 19, 2012
Excuse me, for replying so late, and for not exactly using better diction at the last part. Today's world is more open-minded than back then, and the Bible has been edited several times. So, I wouldn't really consider it anymore cruel. I do age, there that there is a lot of violence in the Bible, though
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:iconvanna1994:
Vanna1994 Featured By Owner Nov 20, 2012
Nah, it's fine ^.^

I can;t argue that there was violence that occured in the Bible.
I guess I don't see the world as being open minded now... (maybe where I'm from, but not the internet, but the internet is a completley different subject in itself XD)
But I don't know.. still seems to be a lot of violence still in our world today : o
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:iconnihilist-nny:
Nihilist-Nny Featured By Owner Nov 20, 2012
I agree with you. Of course it isn't open-minded as I'd like for it to be, but it's better than it was in the past generations
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:iconvanna1994:
Vanna1994 Featured By Owner Nov 23, 2012
Well... I guess we can just see where it goes, and try and make a difference where we can then. ^.^
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:iconanto009:
Anto009 Featured By Owner May 29, 2011
I love how three are from the same parts xD
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:iconcurlyx:
CurlyX Featured By Owner May 24, 2011  Student Digital Artist
Wow, contradicting itself much? XD
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